Team Fortress Wiki talk:Notable persons

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Revision as of 20:43, 10 February 2021 by Wookipan (talk | contribs) (Delete Moby Francke / Adrian Finol?)
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"Valve employees" to "Valve executive staff"

"Valve employees" at once seemed natural, but problematic. It seems, much of the "Category:Media artists, colorists, writers, etc" are Valve employees, and if any aren't it is not really any conflict with the category.

Using Valve employee in the manner collides with the employee user pages cat.

I propose moving Gabe Newell and Robin Walker to "Category:Valve executive staff

M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 05:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I interpret lack of comment as acquiesce at least. M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 05:35, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
Pictogram tick.png Dead! -- M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 02:57, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
For now, I am extending the category to "senior staff", too harried to modify the category.
M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 04:44, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Other Valve employees?

Are there any other particularly important Valve employees mentioned and linked within the wiki (exclusive of User pages) that should be added? M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 17:50, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

  • Erik Johnson, Jay Pinkerton, Greg Cherlin, Dhabih Eng, Eric Smith, Jakob Jungels, Eric Kirchmer are mentioned as Contributing Staff on TF2 Blog Killicon hhg.pngFiatSeicentoKillicon hhg.png 19:37, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Right. Thanks for the Robin link to TF2 Blog. I am unready about the rest. As for me, only a couple of the give the slightest tingle of maybe I've heard of them. (Here is where you post, "C'mon Mika! They's the guy that such and such!")
To your Blog Posters list, add Dave Riller, Corey Peters and others on that column? At least, I am certain I have heard of them -- Works: Level designers of Gorge and Viaduct, respectively???
(This could be a discussion, so, note to all editors, please outdent additional candidates.)
I figured more of the focus of the employee scan was to look for ones with either links already or the prose that mentions them also describes their notability.
Maybe doing a lot of blog posts is notable in of itself, but only 1? (Oh, no, not another notability greyscale).
Valve probably doesn't let nobodies post, so we should be able to cite why they are notable besides the blog posts. Maybe that was your point, the list of Blog Posters represent people who have importance in Valve wrt TF2; I suggest that it is more than just stating that they are blog posters.
For a start, there is the Power Play list.
Several of the Blog Posters also participated in the developer commentaries, another whole can of worms. (Mr. Newell is listed because he produced the game, not because he did commentaries.)
Even if they are in the list, we shouldn't include them if we can't confidently state their job title or accomplishments (level designer of [map name here]). You might know those details already, I'm not critical here, I couldn't do pages for these guy myself.
I think good idea would be to list their titles and works for review.
Maybe we need a list of known employees in a worksheet table for people to submit notability, or was that your idea already.
M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 02:02, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Well, I believe it would be applicable to note the current members of the TF Team, but due to the dynamics of Valve's worker policy it might prove a difficult task - instead, we should note long-term developers within said team, those that have contributed over the course of development. I have two new candidates for that: John Schoenick and Tony Paloma.
Now, as far as I'm concerned, those two have been a part of the TF Team for a long time, though I'm unsure whether Tony is still consistently part of it. The thing is though, that their role is a bit uncertain besides being the primary developers/programmers of the game. Still, I believe it is enough for notability. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 21:41, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Wok: A Rubric: Are they mentioned in the wiki for their contribution/works? If not, is the wiki incomplete for their absence? M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 03:00, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Not entirely. They are both mentioned as being part of the nine Steam accounts with the ability to use Power Play. The people on that list are assumed to be (or have been) among the frequent/main developers of the game, given their status. There is also a few references to Tony's old posts from SPUF and in the older patch notes, but that's about it. As for social networks, they are both titled as software engineers on their LinkedIn profiles, so probably not enough coverage for notability when it comes down to it. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 20:25, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Corey Peters ???

  • Did he do Viaduct (cite blog post?)
  • portrayed in Art Pass Comic

Dario Casali

Ian Caughley?

Tf Managing Director

Both are on my sandbox. However, there's nothing about Caughley in the internet. Maybe would be better to do a list of developers of Team fortress series · Ashe (talk) 14:14, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, same sort of problem with John Cook, Mr. Caughley may have been an important developer of the original games, but maybe not as important or involved later in the game as Walker? "Maybe would be better to do a list of developers of Team fortress series", but not as an NP page, rather, within one of the pages about Team Fortress series development.
M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 03:56, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
I found some sources M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 04:38, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Dave Riller?

  • Lead engineer /level designer

Pictogram tick.png Done

John Cook!

... Online Development Manager

etc?
Pictogram tick.png Done

Erik Wolpaw!

He has a WP bio

Erik Wolpaw is a video game writer for Valve. He is noted in Team Fortress 2 for the writing of several Movies and Comics.

Pictogram tick.png Done

Jay Pinkerton!

Pictogram tick.png Done

Steam names and other aliases

Thinking about including the EmNudge alias of Kipperman got me to thinking about whether, when and how to include aliases. For Makani, it seemed pretty natural; the wiki has used that name for some time, and she uses it herself on her art accounts. And maybe Robin and EmNudge are stable enough to list, and Driller, too. Others might have to get a judgement call? M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 02:16, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

If it is a fairly common nickname/alias used widely to refer to that one person, e.g. Gaben, then I don't see an issue with it. Just an a.k.a., really. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 21:41, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Completion of Comics

  • Sarah "Fayren" Stone
  • Nick Filardi : Unhappy returns /Ring of fired /A Fate Worse Than Chess/Blood Brothers
  • Minttu "TheMinttu" Hynninen : True Meaning
  • Michael Oeming : "artist for earlier Comics" : Bombinomicon (comic)/Grordbort's Crash/Bidwell's Big Plan/A Visual History/WAR! Comic/The Insult That Made a "Jarate Master" Out of Sniper


Death of a Sales-Bot team

<just link to their Steam pages all on one link page and explain it as part of a community update> <or just use the Steam links on the Death of a Sales-Bot (as is)>

  • Artist: The Heartsman
  • Writer: Cat Bountry (words)
  • NassimO (letters)
  • Colorist: InfaredFox

M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 01:45, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Working on it! · Ashe (talk) 04:59, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Translations

Should the translators start to make the translated pages? Or should we wait a little longer? · Ashe (talk) 02:44, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't see a reason not to on the ones that have passed review.
I had wondered whether any translation switching should be set up, but that has not been the standard, see Portal 2.
M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 03:37, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I also wonder about turning the hatnote into a translation switched template.
Probably should have been a template from the start.
M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 16:28, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I made a simple example ··· Ashe (talk) 17:15, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Well now is a template · Ashe (talk) 03:43, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. I may give it a shot tomorrow. M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 03:58, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Delete Moby Francke / Adrian Finol?

ref. Moby Francke, Adrian Finol. — Tark lm(pt-br) 15:05, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

As Mikado said:
""...Maybe would be better to do a list of developers of Team fortress series", but not as an NP page, rather, within one of the pages about Team Fortress series development...""
Ashe (talk) 02:51, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the original tagger's comment that the Original page creator did not follow elements of the policy.
  1. I am not certain that a person mentioned only once (outside of External links) for contributing to early idea of Invasion is missing links. (is Franke "France the Talking France"?)
  2. I am also not certain that only being mentioned on a Developer Commentary Page is sufficient for a NP page.
  3. Even the briefest listing of history is expressly not what these NP pages are to do.
  4. The second sentence is only for stating why they are notable to the Team Fortress series.
  5. Yes, the first sentence is to state what their general occupation is (which neither of these pages do); but, the pages must never state why they are notable to other games, even Valve's.
But the Policy errors are not reasons for deletion; only one thing needs to be decided regarding deletion, are either persons mentioned notably enough in the wiki to justify a NP page linked to that mention. I would suggest that if a person has only one mention in the wiki and that one mention completely describes that person's notable contribution to the Team Fortress series as far as that contribution is mentioned on the wiki, then a NP page is probably unnecessary. If the person deserves more mention on the wiki, that is a different issue.
M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 03:13, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Re. a potential list of developers: Yes, I could see that as an ideal solution for employees with low coverage and role significance, whether it just be a table for documentation purposes.
As for notability factors: how is coverage determined?
  • Occupation?
  • Contributions?
  • Public exposure?
  • Years of employment?
So far there's no criteria as for who's notable and who isn't, so in order to avoid any future entry violations such criteria should be put in place first. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 20:25, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
There is criteria, just not explicitly so, so, an explicit list could be made; (but not responsible for policy not read).
  • The person is mentioned on pages for making contribution to the games of such notability that the page is incomplete without that mention.
  • Multiple mentions for different contributions suggest the usefulness of a page for the person.
  • The mentions are begging for a link for the user to follow.


  • Occupation? Only affects categorization, not notability.
  • Contributions? Yes, really, the only measure, I think.
  • Public exposure? Meaning, for example, someone famous for another reason, but deigned to make at least a small but meaningful contribution to the series?
  • Years of employment? Not really, whether the Contributions were notable or not matters more.
Non-notability.
  • Not mentioned on the wiki at large for contributions
  • One mention for a quote is probably not notable.
  • Developer commentary does not count to notability, since the commentary doesn't convey why the person has the authority to make the commentary; they could well be notable, but we don't know why.
M I K A D O 282 ❄❄❄❄❄ ❄❄ ❄❄ (talk) (Help Wanted!) 04:28, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Well, explicitness is important and key to avert confusion. It's hard to tell whether the author of the pages in question did read the policy, or that it still weren't clear enough as for the factors of notability. NP policy is well-written and covers some factors of notability, but seems to still be lacking an explicit list of dos and don'ts; in fact, you seem a little uncertain yourself in your earlier replies as for measuring coverage. From the scope we know what notable persons are restricted to, as well as the exclusions; while there is a mention of indicator, I feel that it could be more explicit or a nutshell for notability vs. non-notability - in the end, this is a matter of editorial judgement, though sometimes it may be necessary to state the obvious.
"Public exposure? Meaning, for example, someone famous for another reason, but deigned to make at least a small but meaningful contribution to the series?" Yes, but also, are there any sources linked to this person elsewhere to be found - if not, how can we confirm their occupation or contribution(s), and if the person is notable, e.g. Ian Caughler (spelt wrong currently: it's Caughley) but only has little information available on the web and no coverage elsewhere (besides the wiki) would it still merit an article then? User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 20:42, 10 February 2021 (UTC)